Charlie Rose Talks to Donald Rumsfeld

You’re now an app developer: Churchill Solitaire. How did that come to pass?
I was U.S. ambassador to NATO in Brussels in 1973 and ’74. And there was a very senior Belgian diplomat there named André de Staercke. While he’d been in exile in London [during World War II], Churchill taught him this game of solitaire with two decks. When we were at NATO together, he taught me the game. I’ve played it ever since. My wife and I play every day or two in the morning, after breakfast. And it would be ungracious of me to even comment on who’s ahead. It’s so complicated. Instead of seven piles, you’ve got 10. You’ve got to be thinking three, four, five plays ahead, and it’s delightful.

How concerned are you about how Iraq has turned out?
Oh, my goodness. You know, repression works. A brutal dictator can impose his will and kill people and imprison people, and once that’s gone, free people are free to do good things, and they’re also free to do perfectly horrible things. Disorder in Libya, in Syria, in Iraq, in many countries in that part of the world is a serious problem. We’re facing a long struggle against radical Islamists. And it’s going to be years.